Eula Adams, former President of First Data Merchant Services

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I learned that as I came up through the ranks, I had to be okay with having the people who work for me have slightly different approaches about how they went about doing the very task that I wanted them to do and be okay if it wasn't exactly the way I wanted it done, but the end result accomplished what I needed to have them accomplish.

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Welcome to Bridges to Excellence Podcast. Inspired leadership in payments and fintech. Bringing you conversations with payments most fascinating people on top of their game. Leaders, influencers, experts, and innovators. Each weekly episode turns our guests wisdom into practical advice. Their personal journey starts now. are meant to inspire and challenge you to explore your possibilities. Here's your host, Desmond Nicholson. In this episode part of our Trailblazer series, we're talking to Eula Adams, a former senior executive leader of First Data Corporation. Adams rose from humble beginnings to become one of the top players at First Data. In 2002, Adams was appointed one of six senior executive vice presidents of First Data. And made president of its Omaha, Nebraska based first data Resources division. In this role, Adams oversaw 11,000 employees in the United States, the United Kingdom, and Australia. Other appointments during his career. At First Data included President of Teleservices, President of Merchant Services, and for a brief period, Chief Operating Officer of Western Union, acquired by First Data in 1995. Adams corporate rise led him to be named one of the 50 most powerful black executives by Fortune Magazine in July of 2002. Prior to his 12-year span at First Data in 1976, Adams earned his MBA at Harvard University Business School, and in the same year his CPA certification. joined the prestigious accounting firm, Touche and Ross later, Deloitte and Touche, where he worked his way up the corporate ladder to become the first African-American partner in the firm. Later advancing to become an executive committee member where he oversaw the audit group of the Atlanta region. All while concurrently serving military duties in George's Air National Guard from Deloitte, he went on to work for American Express Information Services, which later morphed into First Data along his journey. Eula. Will be sharing with us insightful wisdom and a few actionable takeaways. Eula, welcome to our show and thanks for being here.

Track 1: 00:02:54

No, thank you for inviting me. I'm, honored. I'm really glad we were able to sync our calendars, as someone in semi-retirement. You are quite a busy guy, aren't you? Into, Well, I'm, trying to stay busy these days. There's still, uh, I feel a lot to be done and I feel as though I still have a lot to contribute,

Desmond Nicholson: 00:03:14

we have much to talk about,

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Thank you.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:03:16

right into it. Now take us

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Yes.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:03:19

your early life, where you grew up and what your life was like, what growing up.

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Well, thank you for asking that question, because I always like to share this part of the story for people and I realize we're always short on time, so I'll try and, and be as brief as I can. I grew up from pretty humble beginnings. My, parents were divorced at a very early age, so my mother raised, two boys,, on her own. She was a housekeeper. And, you know, I say this part of the story because a lot of people can relate to,, being in that position back in the fifties and sixties. And she did her best to build and instilled in us some really, good qualities about working hard, being responsible, being accountable. And she would go to work during the mornings and send us off to school, and she would come back and say, all right, when you get home in the afternoon, I want you to make sure the house is clean. You've got these duties. one, brother washed, the dishes and took care of the kitchen, and the other brother, swept the floors, made up the beds, and did things like that. So, we were accustomed to having tasked to do from a very early, age in life. And, so that's what we grew up. Now, along the way, we did what young boys do. We were active in athletics. My older brother, who's about a year and a half older than I am, we both, played high school sports, football and basketball, and ran track. we we're from Jacksonville, Florida originally, even though we were born in Georgia, but grew up in Jacksonville and things were pretty competitive. We were blessed to have gone to one of the, really famous schools in Jacksonville at the time, which is now, called Stanton High School. we had a very famous football coach at, Stanton by the name of, bubbling Pop Smalls. coach James Smalls was a fellow who wanted to see his kids do well in life. And he promoted the idea of college and other things. And so, uh, I was fortunate that when I played for him, I'm not sure I was ever a great football player, but, I played for him and he made sure we got, scholarship opportunities and I was blessed to get an opportunity to attend Morris Brown College on a football scholarship.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:05:36

Okay. And that was of course a historical black college

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Yes. Morris Brown was historically black college, started by the Methodist Church.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:05:45

now. what was it like there and how did it really prepare you for the road ahead?

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Well, because I grew up Desmond in what I would call the segregated south, even though we grew up during the civil rights movement, we largely lived and operated in almost predominantly, black world. Most of the things we did from the time we got up in the mornings to the time we went to, bed in the evening, most of the people we interacted with were African Americans. Or blacks or even

Desmond Nicholson: 00:06:17

I.

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some called us colored at the time. But we, interacted. So going to Morris Brown for me, since I was basically the first person in my family to actually attend college everything was a, learning experience for me. It was brand new. And it was at a time when the Vietnam War was going on, and certainly there was always the possibility that if you didn't do well in college, you could be called into the military and find yourself being sent off to Vietnam. I was blessed in the sense that football and college gave me, reasons to focus on school, because failing was not an option. going back to Jacksonville and having failed in, in college and then going off to the war was not something that could even be contemplated. It. So whatever was required on the football field, whatever was required in the classroom, we made sure that we got up every day and we did what was necessary. And I had a really good role model in my roommate and fellow for, Jacksonville, individual by the name of Wesley Smith. And Wesley and I played high school football together, and Wesley was my roommate in college. and we had a wonderful experience, in college for four years together. WEsley went off to law school at Michigan and became a lawyer and a district attorney in Jacksonville. And I went off to Harvard Business School after working for a couple of years in Atlanta. we both. Competed for good grades in college. We competed for, success on the football field. he was more successful in both than I ever was. He was a better football player and I think probably a better student. but he, dragged me along and I made sure that I did my homework every, evening just like he was doing it. And lo and behold, I started getting really great grades and I started doing very well in college. I, have to be candid with you, I wasn't a great high school student. I was a C student in high school and I became a, a great student in college, mostly because I was around people in an environment where, doing your work and getting good grades and the motivation of not, wanting to go to the military and not wanting to go back to Jacksonville. kept me in the books and so I, started seeing success and just like so many other things in my life, once I started feeling success academically, I continued to, love and enjoy the feedback of that academic success. So as I got good grades, I wanted to continue to get 'em, and so that was a great motivator for me and really almost like a launching pad to my academic success.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:09:07

what led up to your getting into Harvard Business School and is there a story behind that?

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there is a story and I've shared this with a lot of people, but my wife Janet, and Janet and I have been together for over 50 years, and she's also a Morris Brown student, a graduate. She's a former accounting student as well. while we were in college together, she had a dream, that I went to Harvard Business School. And that again, just like so many other things, I was smitten by this young lady in college and by golly, if she thought I was gonna go to Harvard Business School, I went off and I started filling out applications and doing the work necessary to get in. And lo and behold, I was admitted,

Desmond Nicholson: 00:09:54

let's move forward a bit. Now you're at one of the most prestigious CPA of firms in the country, Touche Ross later, Deloitte and Touche. You work hard, advancing your career, through the proverbial glass ceiling to become a partner in record time, not just a partner, but the first African American partner at the firm. What was that experience like?

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it's hard to relate to this today given where, the world is and what we've all accomplished, and so many people go and travel in and out of Atlanta, Georgia today, and they see in Atlanta, Georgia. That looks like a real mecca for African Americans, but that's not the Atlanta that I knew when I came out of college. In fact, I, have to tell people when I went to work in downtown Atlanta for uh, I would show up at work every day, and I wouldn't see another African American unless they were working in a restaurant as a waiter or a server. There were no other people of color that worked in any positions where they were professionals. They weren't running businesses, they weren't running operation. So the Atlanta, Georgia that I knew and when I started at Touche Ross was a very different one. And I was blessed to have a gentleman who did employ me there by the name of Gerald LaCroix. And I have to tell you the image of Gerald. I, always have to tell people about him because he was an old southern gentleman that wore Sears sucker suits, fits all your stereotypes of what a southern gentleman looked like back in the day, with his Sears sucker white, shirt on and his southern draw. And smoking a cigarette or a cigar. So he fit, all the stereotypes, but the one thing that he was at least forward thinking about was a willingness to bring me on board in the earliest days when he didn't really have to, but he hired me and, he sat down with me and he would spend time with me almost every month, Desmond, where he would take me out. He would find out how things were going with me, how I was integrating in other aspects of the firm. And he did that from the very beginning of my career at Touche Ross. He, made me comfortable. He made me feel like he really wanted me and the other people in the firm saw how he treated me, and it had a direct bearing on how others responded. Now, I will tell you, they were, they were careful about the kind of assignments I got. For example, we had a wonderful bank client in Augusta, Georgia, but he wouldn't send me to Augusta, Georgia. and he, made a promise to me that he would try and not, assign me to places that would be uncomfortable and so he was considerate enough about that, and that's what really helped me to be comfortable and to stay there. so I got off to a good start now, with respect to the work, because that was the tricky part, not having known anybody who had worked in a public accounting firm, most of the people that I encountered, it was in a textbook sense. And most of my professors had never worked in an accounting firm. So anything that they could teach me was more theoretical from textbooks are what they imagined. So I had to practice this thing, which sometimes, we, talk about how do you figure out the right things to do in a culture and a world where you, really don't have any grounding in it. it's not like your parents around the dinner table can coach you on how to play the game. So even little things like, how do you behave the right way when you're going out to lunch with people, using the right instruments and doing the right things, or how do you make sure when you're given an area to work on that you get the work done the right way. in those days someone would review your work and they would give you what they call todo points. these are points that after I review all your work, I give you individual comments. On every single sheet of paper that you wrote your name on and tell you what you did wrong. So I started setting goals for myself that I didn't want any todo points, so I'm gonna do the work so well the first time that whoever reviews it will not find anything wrong with it. And that became the standard for me in my public accounting career to say, I'm gonna get as close to being perfect. Not that you ever could, but I'm gonna get as close to being perfect as I could and I'm gonna soak it up. And, and the tricky part about professions, you can relate to this, I'm sure, and our viewers can relate to this, the world we work in isn't like the textbooks. People change the rules and they interpret them differently for different situations. And it was the hardest thing for me to get used to working with different people that I would work for one person who would want it one way. then I would work for somebody else who would want it a different way. And it became always a challenge to try and figure out how to get it the right way for one person and then do it, the different way for the next person. And so I acquired all those kind of skills as I came up through the ranks Touche Ross. And the accounting profession was a really good learning, foundation for me in dealing with the subtleties and the differences of the business world where it constantly changes depending on the whims sometimes and the ideas of the person you work for in terms of how they interpret things. So it was always a challenge to figure out, almost like a game, if you would, how can I get this so that the person who's looking at it will give me the best reviews that I could possibly get, and if it meant I had to work. not 12 hour days because it meant I had to work 16 hour days. It was put in whatever was necessary in order to get the kind of favorable response from the people who were doing the work. And along the way, I became a person that they wanted to do the work. I became a person that people had confidence in because they knew that if they gave me something to do, I was going to go to any end to get it done and, make it happen. So that, I think, contributed directly to my rising up through the ranks of Touche Ross.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:16:46

Eula, I know you're not aware of this, but I also worked for Deloitte, this was in 1979 to 1980 their world headquarters in New

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Yes.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:16:56

At that time, they were called Deloitte Haskins and Sells. That's the same company,

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That's right.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:17:01

that.

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That's the same company. And we didn't merge with them until 89. So when you were there, we were still two different competitors and very different competitors Deloitte's culture versus to Ross's culture was night and day. And I actually think for me, in so many ways, the culture of, Touche Ross fits my personality more than the culture of Deloitte. And part of the reason I ended up not staying with Deloitte had a lot to do with the difference in culture. Touch. Ross was much more of a younger firm and much more open to having, and giving people an opportunity. like Deloitte, had a different approach to how they grew their organization, Touche Ross had a different approach to how it grew its organization. Neither one was, wrong. Each one led to a positive result. And so when I had to do technical inquiries for offices and clients in the firm, the trick was how to respond in a way that allowed for the differences to uh, manifest themselves and not say in a prescriptive way, this is the only way to do it. And so it helped me for the rest of my business career. To be able to work with different people, to manage different people, because I had to get comfortable with different answers. as I mentioned earlier, I learned that I had to work with different managers and different supervisors, and they all had their slightly different ways of doing things. Then I learned that as I came up through the ranks, I had to be okay with having the people who work for me have slightly different approaches about how they went about doing the very task that I wanted them to do and be okay if it wasn't exactly the way I wanted it done, but the end result accomplished what I needed to have them accomplish. And so it's played very well for me in my business career because I have a broad range of acceptable things as long as the ending outcome. Achieve the basic objective. and I know that so many people get so strict in terms of how things have to be done. It makes it difficult for other people to work for them, and it makes it difficult for them to work for other people.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:19:37

to understand this though. Achieving executive committee membership, or at least partnership in a firm like Deloitte is often a lifetime goal for most career CPAs in firms like Deloitte, you had achieved both. What prompted you to leave?

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Well, this is interesting to me because I concluded a career path for myself that was along what I would call the administrative path in big firms. I believed I could go out and get business, and I believed I manage people and relationships, so I wanted to be. Successful on the administrative side. When we did the acquisition or the merger with Deloitte Haskins Sells in 1989, at the time I was on my way to achieving my objectives within Touche Ross because I was running the audit group. So at the time I had 80 professionals under me, a revenue stream of about 7 million. So I set the budgets I dealt with with compensation, I dealt with the promotions, I dealt with all the aspects of it, and I still service as clients. When we merged with Deloitte in 1989, Deloitte was the stronger partner in Atlanta. And so the, partners from the old two Ross firm on the audit side were relegated to more line responsibilities, which meant for me going back into. Primarily just auditing. And as I saw it, it was limiting my long-term prospects because the partner that ran the Deloitte, what was called the Deloitte and Touch office, was Jim Copeland. Jim Copeland had his fellow that ran the audit practice and the other people. And so I, I couldn't see myself and maybe this was impatience on my part. I couldn't see myself trying to work my way back through the Deloitte structure to get into position where one day they would say, oh, he's a guy who could run the entirety of the office. And so when an opportunity came, I left. My horizon was much bigger than just Atlanta, Georgia, much bigger than just Deloitte. As an audit partner, I wanted to do bigger things. I wanted to do things more international. I wanted the bigger scale. And so when the opportunity came to join American Express, even though it was in Denver, it wasn't in New York, I jumped at the opportunity to go.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:22:13

it's 1991. Your world changed. Definitely. You join American Express Information Services in Denver. What was your position there?

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because of the accounting background, I came on board as a vice president of finance and administration. and I was working with, at the time, what was called American Express Information Services Corporation, which was our smallest subsidiary. And it was about, if American Express was doing maybe 9 billion a year in revenue, the information services court was a billion, and they struggled to get capital. Half of the revenue came from one company called First Data Resources, and the rest of it came from what I used to call a collection of straight cats and dogs that were doing everything from, telecommunications call centers to cable billing to, money transfer to other things. But it was, it was a collection of odd things. And, I got there in April of 1991, and in August of 1991, the fellow I was working for came in and said. Oh, we're gonna be spun out of American Express next year. And I had no idea what that would really mean, but what it came to mean was we were spun off as First Data Corporation in April of 1992. In that really, for me was, such a blessing that I never saw coming. I never saw the, the notion of, of being spun off as a separate, freestanding, $2 billion market cap company as being, a source of opening great opportunity for me personally. Because what we were able to do then was to go out into the capital markets and we were able to raise money, we were able to do things we never would've been able to do as a part of First Data, we were able to have our own collateral called. a stock that we could grow. We were able to, get into the credit markets and raise money. So we were able to take what would've been suppressed within American Express, and it was allowed to flourish on its own. And so we started growing in 1992 as First Data Corporation. And we adopted a mantra that said, we're gonna grow at 2020 and 20, so we're gonna grow revenue at 20%. We're gonna grow profit at 20, and we're gonna go return on, shareholder equity at 20%. And lo and behold, we were able to do it. Now, looking back on it, Desmond, I didn't realize sometimes you're just blessed of being

Desmond Nicholson: 00:25:05

at the

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the right place at the right time. And the nineties were a wonderful period for credit cards and, that was a time when all the banks were issuing. Credit cards. We were all getting four and five daily mailings that seen from banks on credit card offerings. And, first data flourished from that on its card issuance side. And, later on we flourished on the merchant side. So our stock price started climbing. we started reporting and as it climbed, we started acquiring other companies. And as we started acquiring other companies, we needed people to run them. We needed people to manage things. And so that created for me the opportunity or the exit from the finance and accounting side into the general management side. And so I was quick to move out to the Teleservices group, which had a large contract with MCI. I had, uh, maybe several thousand people working in call centers in different places. But it gave me a chance to negotiate contracts with MCI. It gave me a chance to manage multiple call centers. my p and l was immediately jumping to, I think it was $200 million a year that I was all of a sudden now able to be responsible for. But unfortunately, what I learned more was how to downsize, because the other thing that came with a customer like MCI was the need to reduce expenses to manage the contract, to try and deal with, employees. Thousands of employees try and manage a away issues around organizing. So all my Harvard, MBA lessons and skills that I had acquired all came into practice. And so, I love that period of time.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:26:59

Okay,

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was terrific.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:27:00

really put the period of time together between 1991 to say 1995. First data went through this world of change, IPO, as you mentioned, and the major acquisition of First Financial Corporation, FFMC, brought in, if my member serves me correctly, Nabanco Telecheck and Western Union. Now walk us through the highlights of that period and the role you played.

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All right. So I have to tell you this first. the biggest customer we had in old Touche Ross was First Financial Management in Atlanta. So I knew First Financial Management and the fellow that ran it from my days at and at Deloitte. So when it came back around. We, competed with them, for an acquisition out of bankruptcy of a company called New Valley. New Valley owned, Western Union. And Western Union was a small company. It wasn't that big. It might've had 400 million in revenue at the time, but it was in bankruptcy. Most of his business was in the US. What we did was we bid because it was sold through an auction. We bid on it because the fellow I worked for really wanted to own Western Union badly, and we bid against First Financial Management and we lost First Financial Management. ended up owning Western Union and then two years later, or a year and a half later, we ended up bidding to buy First Financial Management, which brought with it Western Union. As you said, it brought Telecheck. It brought, Nabanco and the merchant business, and it also brought a healthcare business, a health services business that was pretty sizeable. We paid $7 billion for it and the collection, and if you really equate it and did the math around it, what we bid, which was our high end bid on Western Union, was about 400 million when it was in bankruptcy. We ended up paying 1.6 billion for it a year and a half later as a part of First Financial Management. But what that acquisition did for First Data was it created really three strong pillars for First Data. It, well, you could say four. It created a payments, a money transfer business called Western Union. It created a merchant business, which really is today called Merchant Services, and then it also created another business, which was an issuing business on the card issuance side. Those three uh, businesses, by the time I left First Data, each one of those businesses probably did. the merchant business did maybe 5 billion a year. The, the issuance business did about three, and Western Union did about three. So that wouldn't be about 10 billion a year in revenue. So the same company that in 91 spun out of American Express as a billion dollar company, by the time it got to 2000, was a $10 billion company with a $25 billion market cap. Now, what was exciting about this period of time was we probably completed over 70 acquisitions of different companies, and we exceeded wildly our expectations in the stock market because our initial stock price was $22 a share. and we drove our stock price to 88. We split it at 88 to 44, and then we went back to 88 again. So we created for the shareholders and investors in First Data and enormous return on their investment. So what was a billion or 2 billion in market cap was really something that when I left was 25 billion. So, it's one of my, things that I was associated with that I would say I'm most proud of.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:31:11

Now. let's look forward from say, 1995 to your departure in say, 2003. What was that period like what was your role within that period?

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in 1997, and this was really great and, we got through The acquisition of First Financial was 95, and that's when we got Western Union. And for a short while, I was the Chief Operating Officer of it. And we grew it. We grew it by investing heavily in its Asian business. We invested heavily in its Latin American business. We invested heavily in its African and European business, and it grew massively with the capital infusion that we put in it. So I was rotated out of that business to take on a business we had called merchant Services. Now, at the time I was basically, our CEO's fixer, when we had a problem unit or a new unit, I was assigned to go and work on the unit. So we had a lot of trouble with our merchant business and we wanted to sell it because the fellow that was running it in California, had a lot of difficulty making it profitable. And so I was given the opportunity to manage the merchant business. Which, for me as I think about highlights in my business and professional career working with the group of individuals in the merchant business in First Data has to be the highlight. They were some of the, most clever individuals and people who knew their space better than almost anyone. And they understood the payments business from soup to nuts. They understood what I would call discount interchange and assessment. They understood Visa, MasterCard, and Amex and, payments and how to grow the payment space, like no one else. And we had probably 50% of the market at, at a time when, consumers were moving away from checks and cash to being comfortable with credit card and making payments on credit. So we were in a really good spot on the merchant business, and it took off. I mean, it just started to grow like you wouldn't believe. And thanks to my, buddies in Melville, New York, who came up through, Citi's merchant group that we bought from them, that was that piece that got us Hagerstown, it got us Melville, and it got us, Coral Springs. But those guys knew more about how to manipulate the, the different payment sources that took place in the, stream of pavements than anyone I'd ever met. They would come to me with ideas. And Desmond, I made the comment earlier about being comfortable with people and different risk and different things that they want to do. So one of the things that. I was able to do with my merchant guys when they would come to me with ideas. And I'll give you one example of a clever idea they came to me with once, they said, you know, in, in the payment space, you get to, you get to determine how you want to refund merchants for returns,, and how much you wanna round it out to, different, numbers. And they said, well, we were trying to make our profit level and we had big goals about profit achievement. They said, well, look, we know that when a merchant has a return, we give them the average repayment on their discount and interchange, but we could actually change that and move it out more decimal points. And so I said, well, let's see what it looks like. They made that decision and it turned out to be $19 million a year in profit little things like that, they knew better than anyone else. And these were just many of the ideas. they were some of the best guys that I knew in terms of figuring out ways to, to make a penny in the payments industry.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:35:18

So I guess you would consider that as a feather in your cap, so to speak.

Track 1: 00:35:23

I'm, I'm really proud. But you know what I'm proudest of on that was some of those guys that I know, and Todd was in that group, by the way. You were in that group of people at the time, so you probably relate clearly to what I'm describing here as, as to how well they knew the space.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:35:38

Very much so. Now, conversely, what would you consider a low point in your career at First Data, and is there anything you would've done differently?

Track 1: 00:35:48

I would say when they removed me from the merchant group and they wanted me to go to Omaha and take 'em to Omaha, and I really approached it like I approached everything else in life that there's no such thing as can't, you just do and if you gotta work 20 hours a day to do it. But I found Omaha to be a different place. First of all, it was the legacy First Data piece. They believed that they had invented the credit card industry and if you spent any time in Nebraska and Omaha, it's very incestuous. it's about the family. And so when I went to Omaha, there was another fellow running Omaha by the name of David Bayless. And so he and I ended up like co-presidents of it. But it had 10,000 employees. It was not profitable. And they had huge issues with their customer base, everything from card holders that they were overcharging. And then they had retail cards with, people like, GE that they couldn't bring on board. And everybody employed their neighbor. their children. We had not, we we're the largest employer in the state of Nebraska, and nobody wanted to let anybody go, because they were their neighbors, they were their family, and we were way bloated. We, had way too much infrastructure, too many people. And so when I got to Omaha, and this is, the only comment I'm gonna make about race, I really believe that they were not comfortable seeing an African American run the operation in Omaha. I've never dealt with what I would call internal terrorists in an organization like I dealt with in Omaha. And, I dealt with it in this way. I would give. I would host staff meetings and I would try and give them direction, listen to what they would want to do, how they would want to do it, encourage them on the notion that we had to reduce our spending and our costs, and solicit their ideas on how to do it. And I had 19 people reporting directly to me. And what they would do, Desmond, is I would do my staff meetings with them during the day. I would give my directions on what I wanted and what we needed to do and what we agreed to do. And then they would have a call at night. And at night they would have a call and they would go through all the things we talked about doing. And they would tell each other, don't do that, don't do this, And, this is what I would call, I learned a lesson about what I would call internal terrorist. And, I finally woke up one day and I tried everything. I tried motivational things like good to great. I tried doing things to inspire them, but at the end of the day, we needed to take 3000 people out and as fast as I would take them out, they would hire them back in other areas. And so we never could get it done. And the guy that ran the company was Charlie Fote that came from Omaha. So they would go to him and then he actually started assigning spies to come to Omaha and be sitting in my meetings and he would actually support the things that they were doing or would countering the things I wanted to do by telling them not to do that. I don't know if you remember the infamous every morning meetings that we used to hold at 6:00 AM I don't know if you were a part of those, but he was doing things like that. And so it finally came to a point where. I actually had never known the notion of quitting on anything. But I do feel at some point my experience in Omaha in 2002, 2003, I was injuring myself, damaging my family, all the other aspects of it, and I needed to get out. And so that low point really led me to a decision that I needed to resign and leave First Data and it broke my heart. I'd never, conceded in my life on anything that was, too difficult for me to be successful at. But Omaha

Desmond Nicholson: 00:40:13

A

Track 1: 00:40:13

was really sort of my water well, I

Desmond Nicholson: 00:40:16

are your tips in seeking out a mentor?

Track 1: 00:40:20

I get a lot of, people who ask me today, they look for qualities and they look for attributes. Sometimes they look for position that someone holds. they look for just, people who have a simpatico, people who they're comfortable with. And so I think you have to decide on what you're most comfortable with in the person. Don't be hesitant about asking if you're part of organizations. in my case, I'm a member of the Kappa fraternity and so we do a lot of plan mentoring programs where, you get assigned people to work with. And it's critical to pick industries, to pick positions. but mostly maybe it's people you can talk to people you feel comfortable, you don't need to have a lot of them, but you also don't need to have just one, But the main thing is to have at least, at least one.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:41:11

Now, over the years, reflecting on lessons you've learned in business, what would you tell your younger self?

Track 1: 00:41:19

I'm a very impulsive person,

Desmond Nicholson: 00:41:20

I.

Track 1: 00:41:20

and I think my impulsiveness has gotten me in trouble over the, years. some of it, I think because I wasn't as aware of the business and corporate game, I didn't always know how to read the messages. I didn't know how to read some of the things that people were indirectly telling you without directly telling you. And so I made decisions that in hindsight, I should have played out differently. Now, as I said, some people are worse at this than I am, and I've counseled and mentored people who are worse at it. But I think in my younger self, I would say in hindsight, don't leave First Data because it's not working out at Omaha. stick with it a little while longer as opposed to deciding, well, if it's not gonna work out my way, it's time for me to leave. It might've been smarter for me to stay with First Data longer. Don't be so quick to react, even if you get negative feedback, even if you have a negative result, and then make your decision and make your move. I'm not saying don't move, but I'm just saying be a little bit more patient. And that was, probably the biggest thing I think I have is reading things the wrong way, reading them too quickly and being impulsive

Desmond Nicholson: 00:42:37

Very well now. A major trend and development in the FinTech space is embedded payments. Now, drawing from your experience as a CPA as well as decades in payments and technology, where do you see opportunities for embedded payments?

Track 1: 00:42:55

Oh, I think they're all over the place. we used to think about things when we were all at First Data about that we were doing the laundry and we did have group service providers that provided a lot of service for companies that wanted to, accept payments as merchants. And what I think we've morphed to is the technology and the payment and the platforms that over the internet have really come so far that if you, built a platform. And you don't think about, well, who do I need and how do I need to make sure that my customers that are touching base with my products can complete their transactions as efficiently as possible? Then you're missing a big opportunity of closing sales right away. Sure. A lot of transactions can be redirected and rerouted, I work with a couple of people that are building payment. They're building interesting platforms. Sometimes they're retail platforms, sometimes they're services platforms, sometimes they're other types of platforms. And this is exactly what my friends in Infinicept were all about with Todd, Ablowitz, and his team was how can they help people who really want to be and have a payment solution on the back end? How can they do that? And plus, it's a way to just enhance your own profitability. It's a way to control your relationship with your customers, improve service quality. So, I'm working with the guy right now that has an absolutely fabulous technology that he's built that actually incorporates film, movies, televisions, retail, every other aspect of it. And we have to think about embedded payment. We have to think about giving people the opportunity to execute a transaction anywhere in there for whether they wanna buy tickets to the movie, whether they wanna buy a garment someone's wearing, whether they want to inquire about something, do it without interrupting the programming. let them actually complete a transaction without interrupting the transaction. And we wanna be able to do it if they're doing, an activity in person, if they're at a game, So, I see it, the, the sky's the limit from my perspective. and it's definitely global.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:45:11

Good. Thanks for sharing. Eula you are a member of Harvard Business School Leaders. Am I correct?

Track 1: 00:45:18

Yes, it took me a while before I understood that I was a part of that distinguished group and they revealed that during Black History Month, and it's hard for me to relate to how few African Americans have really been

Desmond Nicholson: 00:45:30

Now,

Track 1: 00:45:30

there.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:45:30

you a question though. first a statement. Since 1915, over 2300 black students, as of this recording, attended Harvard Business School and embrace the school's mission to become leaders who make a difference in the world. How would you describe your contribution to date upholding this aspiration?

Track 1: 00:45:54

I didn't, start out thinking this way, of course, but sometimes fate has a way of leading you someplace. I, do represent first and foremost the African American community in any and everything I do, and I'm a proud CPA, I'm a very proud Harvard MBA and so anything I do, any organization I can be a part of, any activity, whether it's for profit or not for profit, I want to be at the very front of doing things that make a difference. If it's a commercial enterprise, I want it to be very successful and I want it to be not something that's gonna be on the front page of even a local newspaper or, some other publication for something that we did not do well, we did not do. Right. if it's a not-for-profit organization that's doing something in the community. I wanted to be doing things that will make a difference for humanity and for mankind. whether it's a feeding program or it's homeless program, or if it's something political that even I'm involved in get on the right side of political things. It, it's not to say that everybody should believe the same thing politically, but if I'm going to be involved in a political angle, I wanna make sure that it is something that I'm buying into and I'm doing it for the right reasons. And the person, and the people I'm doing it for aren't gonna be an embarrassment or problem for me and all my other relationships. So, I represent all my constituents. And I want people, if, they have to, I want 'em to look back on me and I want 'em to be proud that they know me and help have really good interaction. But, but it's all, it's all in there.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:47:40

specifically, uh, what causes are you currently an advocate of, whether it's civic or otherwise?

Track 1: 00:47:46

I'm a, member of the Colorado Democratic Committee, and that is the committee that works to get people elected who believe in certain causes. I, got really interested in that back during CVID and what was going on in the country politically, and I had so much time to be involved. And so they asked me to be involved. And so I actually, I, I do that. I sit on the finance committee of my congressional Congressman, Jason Crow from the sixth District. I. And I'm also a member of, the committee for, a young man by the name of Joe Nago, who's an up and comer, African American. And he is the first African American from the state of Colorado to be admitted to the house. And he's the fourth person under Mr. Jeffrey. I'm really proud of what that young man has done, and I also work with the Secretary of State. As I mentioned, I'm a volunteer with the Colorado Department of Transportation. the governor appointed me to a five year term, and it's such an important thing in terms of addressing our climate issues, addressing our multi-mobile issue in terms of alternative means of people to get around. I'm learning a lot about it and hopefully sharing a lot. I also am on the board of what is called the White House Historical Association, which does all of the interior in the White House, for the First Lady and the first family. But above and beyond that, they run educational programs, about the White House and the history of the White House and everything that's gone in it. So, the, oh, I have to admit the church. I'm a Baptist and, we're mostly like Southern Baptist, and so I'm a trustee at the church as well and try and stay pretty actively involved in that. And I'm also involved with our Colorado Society of CPAs, basically participating on their diversity, equity, and inclusion committee. And I also am involved in a technical committee because there's a big shortage of people of color and people in general that are coming into the accounting profession. And it's one of the things that many people don't know about. They have a lot of misconceptions about it. And so I decided that I would play a role as CPA to try and help change some of those perceptions by being more visible and being more involved.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:50:07

can you share Eula three actionable takeaways with our listeners, for example, in leadership, work habits, lessons learned, et cetera.

Track 1: 00:50:19

I'm a big believer that no matter what position you're in, that we can always learn from someone above us and someone below us. So never, ever stop learning, never stop investing in your own education and your own growth. The other thing is, when I'm running things and I, am in charge of things, I like to see people who take the attitude that no job is too small for them. That they're not above any one task or something that needs to be done. And so they will take on any and all challenges and, ultimately it's a team sport to me. And so I, I like to see people who, really buy into the notion that it's not so much about me and the credit. There's always enough credit when things work out to be shared. we all come up through an organization and a functional group, and ultimately we may have to manage an entire organization made up of different functions than the one that was our specialty. And, if you've worked within an organization and acquired skills about all the different parts, not master them. You know how to at least discuss and talk to people from different parts of an organization. When you are blessed one day with actually being in charge, you'll find the people that work for you will have a higher level of respect than they otherwise would have.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:51:48

Very well. We move into our final segment.

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The lightning round bridges to excellence, inspired leadership in payments and fintech.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:52:00

I pose a question and you respond with a single word. Or one sentence, shall we begin?

Track 1: 00:52:07

All right,

Desmond Nicholson: 00:52:09

What does success mean to you?

Track 1: 00:52:12

happiness.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:52:12

is the best advice you ever received?

Track 1: 00:52:15

Listen

Desmond Nicholson: 00:52:17

book would you recommend to our listeners and why?

Track 1: 00:52:22

management and Machiavelli It is very much a leadership book that goes back to the earliest ages. And I happen to believe that much of what we can do as good leaders today aren't new tactics and new techniques, but they've been around almost forever.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:52:38

What is your favorite quote in leadership or otherwise that

Track 1: 00:52:41

All.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:52:42

you?

Track 1: 00:52:43

I'm gonna give you my favorite quote from Lincoln, and this is one that I try and live by I am not bound to win. But I am bound to be true. I'm not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. Make the most of what you do have. Don't worry about what you don't have. I must stand with anybody that stands right and stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:53:16

well. or Raiders,

Track 1: 00:53:20

I'm a Bronco guy. Even in, in the worst of times. Bronco fan.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:53:24

is one thing that has you up right now?

Track 1: 00:53:28

I'm really fired up about, what's going on in the world. We started the conversation about what's going on in Israel right now, and I'm really concerned about our treatment for each other and our tolerance with each other. I, I'm bothered by all the places where we have an opportunity to get it right. I'm fired up about, continuing to make a difference. I have two grandkids now. And to me it matters what kind of world we leave them

Desmond Nicholson: 00:53:59

Eula, it's been fun. We've covered a lot today from your backstory Sharing some golden nuggets along the way the shattering of the proverbial glass ceilings at two major organizations, Deloitte and First Data, a trailblazer. Indeed. Now, is there any final comment before we wrap up?

Track 1: 00:54:20

I have to say thank you, Desmond, for seeking me out and giving me a chance to share my story with people with, this podcast Medium. we're all trailblazers in our own way and some trails are bigger than other trails, but they're all important trails for us to go down. Get as far as we can. Do as much as we can, and just remember that there's always someone coming behind us and we're just making a path for them that they're gonna make bigger and make better, but they wouldn't be able to do that if we hadn't gotten the start for them.

Desmond Nicholson: 00:54:56

Eula, thank you for being on our show. And to our listeners, thank you for your time and never forget the more you expect from yourself, more Excel.

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You've been listening to Bridges to Excellence podcast, inspired leadership and payments and fintech. Be sure to join us next time for more conversations with another of your colleagues in payments and fintech. Insightful conversations in their journey to excellence for transcripts and other materials covered on the show. Visit us at DesmondNicholson. com.